Press of the BeComingOne Church

Trinity v. God the BeComingOne

[Partly taken from the God Papers  by Walter R. Dolen
 Copyright 1977-2003 by Walter R. Dolen and/or BeComingOne Church]

 

Comparative Tables

[Last updated on May 11, 2015]
[This is a  work in progress. (It needs editing and more detail) Check back for the finished tables.
We plan to link all text to proof text and scriptures.]

Trinity v. BeComingOne Table
Father, Son, Holy Spirit Table
Infinity of God Table

[Please print and paste together]

Trinity God BeComingOne the God

Qualities

Comments

Qualities

Comments
Three persons in One God

He is numerically one, yet He is three individual "persons"

"Since the Father is a person, and the Son a person, and the Holy Spirit a person, therefore there are three persons: since then the Father is God, and the Son is God, and the Holy Spirit is God, why not three Gods? ... therefore it was lawful through the mere necessity of speaking and reasoning to say three persons, not because Scripture says it, but because Scripture does not contradict it: whereas, if we were to say three Gods, Scripture would contradict it, which says, Hear, O Israel, the Lord thy God is One God?"  (Augustine, On the Trinity, bk 7, ch 4)

[Deut 6:4; 1Cor 8:6; ]

Three persons in a numerically One is against the Law of Contradiction;

Trinitarians conveniently ignore the other meaning of one (unity) which is used to describe God in the Bible.

They do not say there are three in the unity of One.

Notice the quote by Augustine of Deut 6:4 is an incorrect one. It does not read, the Lord thy God is one God, but it does read in the Greek translation, the Lord thy God is one Lord, while more correctly in the original Hebrew it reads:

"Hear Israel, YHWH our elohim (Gods) one YHWH" or "Hear O Israel, BeComingOne our God(s), BeComingOne (is) One."

One YHWH, One God, Who is / was / will be all in all

God will be all and thus there will be none else but God; all things in God, in unity, in the system of love when all are in God.

(All went out of God; all will come back into God so that God will be all in all. Yet even now in the age of evil God's Power oversees all since He has predestinated all that was / is / will be. See GP1)

[Deut 4:35,39, 6:4; 1Kgs 8:60; Isa 45:6,18,21-22, 46:9; 1Cor 8:6, 15:28]

The oneness of God carries both meanings of one.

1. God is both one numerically and the only One [there is none else but God],

2. and God is one in the sense of unity, many in one: God all in all.

Christ's Body, which will fill all, is many in One. (1Cor 12:12; Eph 1:23)

When all go back into God, through the Body of Christ, then God will be all in all.

This is why God told Moses that His Name is, "I Will-Be" or that His Name was "He (who) Will-Be."  The true good God is the BeComingOne, the Power that will be all in all when all go into Christ. (1Cor 15:28; GP1)  Yet now God has full control through his predestination power. The great power of God has allowed the whole creation to go out of God in order to learn the evil of evil, and thus be able to understand and appreciate the good of good. ("Reason Why" NM20)

Trinity God BeComingOne

Qualities

Comments

Qualities

Comments
The Trinity is a "Mystery Beyond Comprehension of Man"
[Systematic Theology, L. Berkhof]

[Trinity mystery not found in the Bible; taken from philosophy, and secular works.]

Trinitarianism is against logic as they rightly admit, thus they call it a "mystery." Not a Mystery

The nature of God can be explained; will be explained and is being explained by Christ through His Spirit. (Luke 10:21-22; Rom 16:25; Eph 1:9, 3:4, 5:32; Col 1:27, 2:2, 4:3)

[Revealed through the Creation. (Rom 1:20; see below)

Luke 10:21-22; Rom 1:20]

The Bible in its original languages clearly describes the Name of God [GP1b], God's becoming oneness, and God's nature. (God Papers, Part 1 to 6)
Trinity God BeComingOne

Qualities

Comments

Qualities

Comments
Immutability of God
(Unchangeable)

"He is unchangeable, and declared this to be His own name to His servant Moses, when He says, "I am that I am."  (Augustine, On the Trinity, bk 7, ch 5)

"Because He [God] is incapable of change." (Augustine, On the Trinity, bk 5, ch 16)

[Greek philosophers; church fathers; Exod 3:14, Greek text]

"Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men... (Col 2:8)

The "I am that I am" quoted by Augustine does not prove that God is unchangeable, because first this was taken from a mistaken translation, and second, because "I am" in and of itself does not say God is unchangeable, but that he lives.

For proof against the immutability theory see GP1g.

He (who) will-be
(the Becoming-one)

Some aspect of God is changing (His very Name indicates He is BeComing), but His power predestinated and controls all even now.

[Exod 3:14; Heb text;  
God Papers Part 1 (GP1)]

 God's very Name indicates that He is becoming. [GP1b]

God can change in some ways, but remains truthful and all powerful. (GP1g)

Trinity God BeComingOne

Qualities

Comments

Qualities

Comments
Timeless
Trinity is not limited by time: the Trinity transcends time

"Because therefore the Word of God is One ... all things are simultaneously therein, potentially and unchangeably; not only those things which are now in this whole creation, but also those which have been and those which shall be. And therein they neither have been, nor shall be, but only are." (Augustine, On the Trinity, bk 4, ch 1)

"For the order of times is in the eternal wisdom of God without time." (Augustine, On the Trinity, bk 2, chap 5)

This myth is one reason the Trinitarians cannot see that the Son of God did not always exist, but came into existence when Jesus Christ was born of Mary and the Holy Spirit. They must deny scripture in order to keep their Grecian theories alive.

This Trinitarian idea of God's timelessness is based on Greek philosophy and an incorrect Greek version of Exod 3:14. The real Name of God identifies God, but the real Name of God has been corrupted and hidden by mankind and the "other-mind." In other words, God's Name has been taken in vain. (Exod 20:7

God's Name and scripture clearly show that He Is becoming, yet was, and is

[Exod 3:14; Rev 1:8 (Hebrew word and its real meaning)]

Names in the Bible help to mark out and identify people. [GP1c] God's Name means: he who was, who is, and who is coming. [GP1b] It has everything to do with time, and is not timeless. You cannot understand the True God without time.
Trinity God BeComingOne

Qualities

Comments

Qualities

Comments
 Flesh of Christ

a body "taken"

 

Did God steal or "take" a body or was the Messiah and Son of God born as the Seed? (see PP1)

 Flesh of Christ

Christ's flesh became God's own soul (Isa 42:1) and body, the very image of God, bodily. (Col 2:9)

The Jesus Christ who was born and died was the Messiah. He actually was born and died. We don't have to change the meaning of words to manifest our God, but the Trinitarians do have to change the meaning of words.

Through Christ, God now has the eyes, nose, ears, arms, projected in the Old Testament. (Exod 33:11; Num 12:8; Deut 34:10 ff; Pss 11:4; GP3; etc.) The Trintarians call these scriptures on God's flesh and body as Anthromorphisms. But these Scriptures were pointing to Christ.

Trinity God BeComingOne

Qualities

Comments

Qualities

Comments
Jesus Christ's Pre-Existence

Because, according to the Trinitarians view,  the Trinity is timeless and changeless, then the Son must have always existed, even before he was born. In order words, Jesus Christ "Pre-Existed" before he was born.

The Grecian views of the Trinitarians again prevent them from seeing Scriptures clearly. Jesus Christ did not pre-exist before he was born.

The Spirit of Christ did; the man Jesus Christ, the Son, did not.

After Christ became One with His Father's (YHWH) Spirit, Paul and anyone else could speak of the Old Testament's Spirit as Christ's Spirit (1Pet 1:11), since it was. But the flesh of Christ did not exist before he was born, only the Spirit.

Jesus Christ, the Son, did not Pre-exist.

Trinity God BeComingOne

Qualities

Comments

Qualities

Comments
Not Pantheism

Not all is God, yet God is everywhere. (Pss 139:7-12; Jer 23:24)

Cannot be shown in scripture because of Isa 45:6,18,21-22, 46:9; 1Cor 15:28; Eph 1:23 [none else but YHWH, God; all will fulfill the Body of Christ; etc.]

This is contrary to scripture and logic. God cannot be everywhere and yet not in someway or at some time everything. Remember what Paul told the Greeks? "For in him [God] we live, and move, and have our being." (Acts 17:28) Be careful, I am not saying that now   all are in our God. For we know that now all are not under God or in God. (1Cor 15:28; Heb 2:8) God will be all in all: thus is not now all in all.

Yet God's power controls all since he predestinated all to happen, including the good and the bad. GP1

[1Cor 15:28; Eph 1:23]

God in some manner existed before the creation; God sent all out of Him; God will bring all back into Himself. When all are back in God then there will be one God, with many new creatures in Him. See God Papers

 

 

 

 

 

Father, Son, Holy Spirit
Baptized into the Name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit    [Read all the God Papers for full details]

Qualities Father / God Holy Spirit

Son of God / Man
Image of the God and the Godhead
[Rom 1:19-20; 2Cor 4:4; Col 1:15, 2:9; Heb 1:3]

Spirit of Christ
Word of God
[Typified by Adam]

Flesh of Christ
Anointed One
[Typified by Eve]

New Creation
Word Became Flesh
Spirit and Flesh are One
[Typified by Offspring]
John 1:14; Col 1:15; Rev 3:14

Two as One
[Typified by Sex Union]

All Things All things are out of God; all things will go back into God through Jesus Christ. (2Cor 5:18-19) God who was all things before the creation, and who is (is life and upholds the present creation, who predestinated everything in the present age), and who will be all in all (1Cor 15:28; Rev 1:4,8) is the only true God.

Christ will bring back all to the Father through Himself (Phil 2:10-11; Col 1:19-20), for all must go into Christ. (Pss 110:1; Isa 45:23; John 12:32, 14:6, 17:21,23; Rom 11:26; 1Cor 15:24-28; Eph 1:10,20-23; Phil 2:10, 3:21; Col 1:20; 1Tim 2:3-4; 2Pet 3:9; see GP6)

All things are not yet under or in Christ (Heb 2:8) but in the future all will be in Christ (and thus back into the Father [1Cor 15:28]) so that the saying becomes true: "There is none apart from me. I am the BeComingOne [YHWH] and there is none else." (Isa 45:6) Thus Christ's words have a new meaning. (read and understand, Mark 12:29-31)

Timeless The so-called "timelessness" of God is a Grecian theory about God's nature, but God says in Exod 3:14, "I will be" (YHWH), not "I am".

His Name pointed to the becoming-oneness of God, for the All Powerful One is he who is, who was, and [who is] the one coming, the Almighty. (Rev 1:4,8).

God used an imperfect Hebrew verb for His Name, not a Hebrew perfect verb or a Hebrew noun, not a Greek verb or noun, not a Latin word or an English word.

"The [Hebrew] imperfect denotes, on the other hand, the beginning, the unfinished, and the continuing..." (Gesenius Hebrew Grammar, 47.1, note 1)

See Part 1 of the God Papers for more detail on God's real Name. "Of Whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named." (Eph 3:15)

Qualities Father / God Holy Spirit

Son of God / Man
Image of the God and the Godhead
[Rom 1:19-20; 2Cor 4:4; Col 1:15, 2:9; Heb 1:3]

Spirit of Christ
Word of God
[Typified by Adam]

Flesh of Christ
Anointed One
[Typified by Eve]

New Creation
Word Became Flesh
Spirit and Flesh are One
[Typified by Offspring]
John 1:14; Col 1:15; Rev 3:14

Two as One
[Typified by Sex Union]

Time element Power of God existed before the foundation of the cosmos and will exist always. (Rom 1:20; Eph 1:4; 1Pet 1:20);

See God Papers for full details.

Since our God is Holy, since God is spirit, then the Holy Spirit is God.

Since our God existed from the beginning, since God is Spirit, then the Holy Spirit existed from the beginning.

In the beginning God was the Word, the very angel (messenger) or Spirit of the Lord with the Name (YHWH) of God in Him. (Exod 23:20-21; John 1:1; See GP3) The Seed was predestinated before the beginning to be born, to die for our sins, and to be resurrected (John 17:24; Acts 2:23; 1Pet 1:19-20; GP4 & PP1).

"But when the fullness of the time came, God sent forth his Son, born of a woman, born under the law." (Rom 1:3; Gal 4:4) Thus, at the appointed time, "God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power ... for the God was with him." (Acts

At the appointed time the Word was made flesh. (John 1:14) Christ is the beginning of the New Creation (Gen 2:24; Mark 10:6-8; Luke 24:39; 2Cor 5:17; Col 1:15,18; Rev 3:14). In this new union Christ is the first born from the dead (Rev 1:5) "he that lives, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive into the ages of ages" (Rev 1:18)

"I overcame, and am set down with my Father in his throne." (Rev 3:21) YHWH means, "He who will-be" -- the BeComingOne

Qualities Father / God Holy Spirit

Son of God / Man
Image of the God and the Godhead
[Rom 1:19-20; 2Cor 4:4; Col 1:15, 2:9; Heb 1:3]

Spirit of Christ
Word of God
[Typified by Adam]

Flesh of Christ
Anointed One
[Typified by Eve]

New Creation
Word Became Flesh
Spirit and Flesh are One
[Typified by Offspring]
John 1:14; Col 1:15; Rev 3:14

Two as One
[Typified by Sex Union]

Spirit

Before Christ's resurrection and his going to the Father, Jesus said that God is spirit (John 4:24) -- The Spirit of God (1Cor 3:16). Spirit is spirit; the good spirit of God and Holy Spirit are the same (cf 1Cor 3:16 w/ 6:19; Eph 2:18,22) Spirit of Christ is same Holy Spirit and Spirit of God of the Old and New Testament Scriptures. (cf. Num 12:6; 2Sam 23:2; Heb 1:1; 1Pet 1:11; 2Pet 1:21)  The Spirit of God and the Spirit of Christ is the same One Spirit. (John 17:21; Rom 8:9; 1Cor 6:17, 12:3,13; Eph 2:18, 4:4; Phil 1:27) Spirit in him given by the Father (Luke 11:13) "God anointed Jesus of Nazareth with the Holy Spirit and with power ... for the God was with him." (Acts 10:38) "Spirit said ..." (Acts 10:19; Rev 2:7,11, 22:17)
Qualities Father / God Holy Spirit

Son of God / Man
Image of the God and the Godhead
[Rom 1:19-20; 2Cor 4:4; Col 1:15, 2:9; Heb 1:3]

Spirit of Christ
Word of God
[Typified by Adam]

Flesh of Christ
Anointed One
[Typified by Eve]

New Creation
Word Became Flesh
Spirit and Flesh are One
[Typified by Offspring]
John 1:14; Col 1:15; Rev 3:14

Two as One
[Typified by Sex Union]

Messiah

The Christ

The Anointed

Remember God is Spirit (John 4:24), so there is no sense for good Spirit to be anointed with good Spirit. The "oil" of the Holy Spirit is what the fleshly Messiah (The promised Seed) was anointed with. (Acts 10:38) There is no sense for good Spirit to be anointed with good Spirit. The "oil" of the Holy Spirit is what the fleshly Messiah (the promised Seed) was anointed with. (Acts 10:38) There is no sense for good Spirit to be anointed with good Spirit. The Holy Spirit is what the fleshly Messiah (the promised Seed) was anointed with. (Acts 10:38) The Messiah came in the flesh (1Tim 2:5; 1John 4:3), born of a woman and the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:30-31,35; Gal 4:4), and he is The One Anointed (Isa 61:1; Dan 9:25; Acts 4:27, 10:38 w/ Pss 45:7; Luke 4:17-21) As One both can now be called the anointed One.
Qualities Father / God Holy Spirit

Son of God / Man
Image of the God and the Godhead
[Rom 1:19-20; 2Cor 4:4; Col 1:15, 2:9; Heb 1:3]

Spirit of Christ
Word of God
[Typified by Adam]

Flesh of Christ
Anointed One
[Typified by Eve]

New Creation
Word Became Flesh
Spirit and Flesh are One
[Typified by Offspring]
John 1:14; Col 1:15; Rev 3:14

Two as One
[Typified by Sex Union]

God Deut 10:17; Isa 63:16; 1Cor 8:6 Spirit of God; God is Spirit (Acts 5:3-4) The Spirit of Christ was the same Spirit of God of the O.T.

(1Pet 1:11; see GP3)

Came from the Father (God); goes to the Father. When he was flesh, the Father (God) was greater than him God and flesh now are one. (John 20:28; Heb 1:8) The beginning of the new creation (2Cor 5:17; Gal 6:15; Col 1:18; Rev 3:14, 21:5)
Qualities Father / God Holy Spirit

Son of God / Man
Image of the God and the Godhead
[Rom 1:19-20; 2Cor 4:4; Col 1:15, 2:9; Heb 1:3]

Spirit of Christ
Word of God
[Typified by Adam]

Flesh of Christ
Anointed One
[Typified by Eve]

New Creation
Word Became Flesh
Spirit and Flesh are One
[Typified by Offspring]
John 1:14; Col 1:15; Rev 3:14

Two as One
[Typified by Sex Union]

Father 1Cor 8:6: Isa 64:8 Mat 1:18; Luke 1:35; John 3:3-6; Titus 3:5 Was the same spirit as the Father. (Isa 9:6; John 10:30,38; See GP2, GP3 & GP4) Had the Father inside of him doing the works; the Son was the manifestation of the Father.  (John 14:9-10) Father and creator of all the new creation (Isa 9:6; Rev 21:5)
Qualities Father / God Holy Spirit

Son of God / Man
Image of the God and the Godhead
[Rom 1:19-20; 2Cor 4:4; Col 1:15, 2:9; Heb 1:3]

Spirit of Christ
Word of God
[Typified by Adam]

Flesh of Christ
Anointed One
[Typified by Eve]

New Creation
Word Became Flesh
Spirit and Flesh are One
[Typified by Offspring]
John 1:14; Col 1:15; Rev 3:14

Two as One
[Typified by Sex Union]

Creator Isa 43:15, 44:24, 64:8 Gen 1:2; Job 26:13, 33:4 Same Word of God that created. (John 1:3; Col 1:15-17) Fleshly Christ with God inside of him ["Immanuel" Isa 7:14; Mat 1:23] created life: rose Lazarus from the dead. The Spirit of God continues and will create all things new with Christ. (Col 1:15-17; Rev 21:5)
Qualities Father / God Holy Spirit

Son of God / Man
Image of the God and the Godhead
[Rom 1:19-20; 2Cor 4:4; Col 1:15, 2:9; Heb 1:3]

Spirit of Christ
Word of God
[Typified by Adam]

Flesh of Christ
Anointed One
[Typified by Eve]

New Creation
Word Became Flesh
Spirit and Flesh are One
[Typified by Offspring]
John 1:14; Col 1:15; Rev 3:14

Two as One
[Typified by Sex Union]

YHWH ("He will be" -- the "BeComingOne") Isa 43:15, 64:8; Confirm by comparing Num 14:11; Deut 32:12; Isa 63:10-16 Confirm by comparing Num 14:11; Deut 32:12; Isa 63:10-16 Spirit/Angel with the Name (Exod 23:20-23; GP3) Came in the Name of his Father. (John 5:43) Christ's new Name. (Rev 1:4,8, 3:12;  Compare Isa 40:3 with Isa 8:13-14; Mat 3:3 with Zech 12:10; 1Pet 2:7-8 with Isa 45:23; John 19:37 with Rom 14:10-11; etc.) "Of whom the whole family in heaven and earth is named." (Eph 3:15)
Qualities Father / God Holy Spirit

Son of God / Man
Image of the God and the Godhead
[Rom 1:19-20; 2Cor 4:4; Col 1:15, 2:9; Heb 1:3]

Spirit of Christ
Word of God
[Typified by Adam]

Flesh of Christ
Anointed One
[Typified by Eve]

New Creation
Word Became Flesh
Spirit and Flesh are One
[Typified by Offspring]
John 1:14; Col 1:15; Rev 3:14

Two as One
[Typified by Sex Union]

Word "God said" (Gen 1:3,6,9) "Spirit said" (Luke 12:12; Acts 4:31, 10:19; Rev 2:7,11) Holy Spirit spoke in the Old Testament and New. (2Sam 23:2; Acts 4:31; 2Pet 1:21) "In the beginning was the Word..." (John 1:1) Spoke the words of the Father. (John 12:49, 14:24) Word of God (Rev 19:13)
Qualities Father / God Holy Spirit

Son of God / Man
Image of the God and the Godhead
[Rom 1:19-20; 2Cor 4:4; Col 1:15, 2:9; Heb 1:3]

Spirit of Christ
Word of God
[Typified by Adam]

Flesh of Christ
Anointed One
[Typified by Eve]

New Creation
Word Became Flesh
Spirit and Flesh are One
[Typified by Offspring]
John 1:14; Col 1:15; Rev 3:14

Two as One
[Typified by Sex Union]

One One YHWH (Deut 6:4 One Spirit (Eph 2:18, 4:3-4) One Lord. (Eph 4:5) Mediator not one

(1Tim 2:4)

One God, One Lord, One Spirit, One Body of Christ. (1Cor 12:12 ff.; Rom 12:4-5; 1Cor 10:17; Eph 4:4-6 ) All will be in the New Creation in the Name of God (BeComingOne) so that there is none else but the true God. (Isa 45:6)
Qualities Father / God Holy Spirit

Son of God / Man
Image of the God and the Godhead
[Rom 1:19-20; 2Cor 4:4; Col 1:15, 2:9; Heb 1:3]

Spirit of Christ
Word of God
[Typified by Adam]

Flesh of Christ
Anointed One
[Typified by Eve]

New Creation
Word Became Flesh
Spirit and Flesh are One
[Typified by Offspring]
John 1:14; Col 1:15; Rev 3:14

Two as One
[Typified by Sex Union]

Many in One "Let us create"; "makers"; "gods are YHWH, one YHWH"

(GP1)

SpiritS and angelS of God

(Heb 1:13-14, 2:2)

This Spirit in the fleshly Christ acted as One with Christ.

(John 10:30)

Flesh with the Spirit in him acted as One: did exactly as the Father directed. (John 12:49, 14:10) One Body of Christ with many members: all will go into this Spiritual Body, for it will fill all. (Eph 1:23; Col 1:20)
Qualities Father / God Holy Spirit

Son of God / Man
Image of the God and the Godhead
[Rom 1:19-20; 2Cor 4:4; Col 1:15, 2:9; Heb 1:3]

Spirit of Christ
Word of God
[Typified by Adam]

Flesh of Christ
Anointed One
[Typified by Eve]

New Creation
Word Became Flesh
Spirit and Flesh are One
[Typified by Offspring]
John 1:14; Col 1:15; Rev 3:14

Two as One
[Typified by Sex Union]

Immutable This idea came from the Grecian philosophers, not from the Bible; this theory goes to extremes in some doctrines or teachings.
Qualities Father / God Holy Spirit

Son of God / Man
Image of the God and the Godhead
[Rom 1:19-20; 2Cor 4:4; Col 1:15, 2:9; Heb 1:3]

Spirit of Christ
Word of God
[Typified by Adam]

Flesh of Christ
Anointed One
[Typified by Eve]

New Creation
Word Became Flesh
Spirit and Flesh are One
[Typified by Offspring]
John 1:14; Col 1:15; Rev 3:14

Two as One
[Typified by Sex Union]

Changeable





[See God Papers and below for details]

• created everything out of himself

• will bring all back into Him

• begot the Son

• father of spirits

• all must not now be in Him (since He is good and now there is evil; etc.)

• gave all his power to the Son

• interacts with mankind throughout time

• begets Spiritual sons and daughters;

• was from the beginning

• through Christ made flesh; died;

resurrected

• all will fill Christ's Spiritual Body

• born

• born to be king

• had emotions

• was tempted

• died

• resurrected

Two become one:

• alive from the beginning

• the first

• creator of old universe and new

• was born through the Seed

• died through the Seed

• physical body resurrected, will not die again

• Received all power from the Father

Qualities Father / God Holy Spirit

Son of God / Man
Image of the God and the Godhead
[Rom 1:19-20; 2Cor 4:4; Col 1:15, 2:9; Heb 1:3]

Spirit of Christ
Word of God
[Typified by Adam]

Flesh of Christ
Anointed One
[Typified by Eve]

New Creation
Word Became Flesh
Spirit and Flesh are One
[Typified by Offspring]
John 1:14; Col 1:15; Rev 3:14

Two as One
[Typified by Sex Union]

Real Immutability

[See God Papers and below for details]

never lies, is truth, is Life

All powerful

never lies, is truth, is Life never lies, is truth, is Life never lies, is truth through the power given him; after resurrection never dies again never lies, is truth, is life, never dies, yet died since he now has the flesh of Christ in him.

Given all the power of the Father (Mat 28:18)

Qualities Father / God Holy Spirit

Son of God / Man
Image of the God and the Godhead
[Rom 1:19-20; 2Cor 4:4; Col 1:15, 2:9; Heb 1:3]

Spirit of Christ
Word of God
[Typified by Adam]

Flesh of Christ
Anointed One
[Typified by Eve]

New Creation
Word Became Flesh
Spirit and Flesh are One
[Typified by Offspring]
John 1:14; Col 1:15; Rev 3:14

Two as One
[Typified by Sex Union]

Flesh Manifested in the so-called Anthromorphisms of the OT. (See Flesh of Christ) Appeared as an angel/ man to some in the O.T. (see GP3) Spirit inside Christ's flesh (GP3) Born of a woman, came in the flesh, fleshly body resurrected. (Rom 9:5; Gal 4:4; See GP4 & GP5) God abides with men; Son of God and sons of God are one with the Father as Christ was one with the Father. (John 17:23; Rev 20:3; see GP5)
Qualities Father / God Holy Spirit

Son of God / Man
Image of the God and the Godhead
[Rom 1:19-20; 2Cor 4:4; Col 1:15, 2:9; Heb 1:3]

Spirit of Christ
Word of God
[Typified by Adam]

Flesh of Christ
Anointed One
[Typified by Eve]

New Creation
Word Became Flesh
Spirit and Flesh are One
[Typified by Offspring]
John 1:14; Col 1:15; Rev 3:14

Two as One
[Typified by Sex Union]

God Phil 1:2 Acts 5:3-4 John 1:1,14; Col 2:9 Only after resurrection: John 20:28; Heb 1:8 1Tim 4:10; Titus 2:13; 1John 5:20; Rev 1:4,8, 15:3)
Qualities Father / God Holy Spirit

Son of God / Man
Image of the God and the Godhead
[Rom 1:19-20; 2Cor 4:4; Col 1:15, 2:9; Heb 1:3]

Spirit of Christ
Word of God
[Typified by Adam]

Flesh of Christ
Anointed One
[Typified by Eve]

New Creation
Word Became Flesh
Spirit and Flesh are One
[Typified by Offspring]
John 1:14; Col 1:15; Rev 3:14

Two as One
[Typified by Sex Union]

Resurrects 1Thess 1:10 Rom 8:11 John 2:19, 10:17 The Father does the works. (John 5:20-21,27-28, 14:10) John 5:20-21,27-28; Rev 20:5
Qualities Father / God Holy Spirit

Son of God / Man
Image of the God and the Godhead
[Rom 1:19-20; 2Cor 4:4; Col 1:15, 2:9; Heb 1:3]

Spirit of Christ
Word of God
[Typified by Adam]

Flesh of Christ
Anointed One
[Typified by Eve]

New Creation
Word Became Flesh
Spirit and Flesh are One
[Typified by Offspring]
John 1:14; Col 1:15; Rev 3:14

Two as One
[Typified by Sex Union]

Indwells 2Cor 6:16 John 14:17 Father in Christ. John 10:38, 14:10 Had the Father inside him Col 1:27
Qualities Father / God Holy Spirit

Son of God / Man
Image of the God and the Godhead
[Rom 1:19-20; 2Cor 4:4; Col 1:15, 2:9; Heb 1:3]

Spirit of Christ
Word of God
[Typified by Adam]

Flesh of Christ
Anointed One
[Typified by Eve]

New Creation
Word Became Flesh
Spirit and Flesh are One
[Typified by Offspring]
John 1:14; Col 1:15; Rev 3:14

Two as One
[Typified by Sex Union]

All Knowing 1John 3:20 John 14:26; 1Cor 2:10-11 John 16:30 Had the all knowing Father in him. John 16:30 Christ is God, thus all knowing. (Col 2:3; 1John 3:20)
Qualities Father / God Holy Spirit

Son of God / Man
Image of the God and the Godhead
[Rom 1:19-20; 2Cor 4:4; Col 1:15, 2:9; Heb 1:3]

Spirit of Christ
Word of God
[Typified by Adam]

Flesh of Christ
Anointed One
[Typified by Eve]

New Creation
Word Became Flesh
Spirit and Flesh are One
[Typified by Offspring]
John 1:14; Col 1:15; Rev 3:14

Two as One
[Typified by Sex Union]

Holy Isa 43:15 "Holy" Spirit Acts 2:27 Acts 4:30 Rev 6:10
Qualities Father / God Holy Spirit

Son of God / Man
Image of the God and the Godhead
[Rom 1:19-20; 2Cor 4:4; Col 1:15, 2:9; Heb 1:3]

Spirit of Christ
Word of God
[Typified by Adam]

Flesh of Christ
Anointed One
[Typified by Eve]

New Creation
Word Became Flesh
Spirit and Flesh are One
[Typified by Offspring]
John 1:14; Col 1:15; Rev 3:14

Two as One
[Typified by Sex Union]

Lord Lord of all the earth (Josh 3:13; Zech 6:5)     Prophesized to be Lord (Pss 110:1; Mark 12:35-37; Acts 2:29-36, 5:30-31;) Lord of all (Acts 10:26)

Christ is Lord of all, yet "now we see not yet all things put under him." (Heb 2:8) But they will be. (1Cor 15:25-28)

Footnotes for Father, Son, Holy Spirit:

Typified by Sex Union
1. Remember that the manifestation of the Godhead can be found in the creation. (Rom 1:20) What is more obvious than the reality of sex in the creation? The maleness and femaleness of God's creation is most obvious and that is why Paul wrote, "For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his always power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse." (Rom 1:20)  In the beginning man was made in the image of God (Gen 1:26-27, 5:1-2). Both Male & Female were called Adam, two in number were called one. (Gen 1:27, 5:2) As they two became one (Gen 1:24; Mark 10:6-8) so did the Spirit of Christ and the flesh of Christ became one. (Rom 5:14;  See GP5)

Before the resurrection and Christ's going to his Father the Spirit and flesh acted as one, typified by the sexual union.

But after the resurrection and Christ's going to his Father both The Word and the Seed became one, typified by the child of a sexual union (a new creation with both parents' genes).

But Augustine rejects this in his On the Trinity [about 428 AD] book, which took him about 30 years to research and write. (bk 12, chapters 5-8)

"Why then, as I began by saying, in regard to the nature of man made after the image of God, does Scripture specify nothing except male and female? Certainly, in order to complete the image of the Trinity, it ought to have added also son, although still placed in the loins of his father, as the woman was in his side ... We ought not therefore so to understand that man is made in the image of the supreme Trinity, that is, in the image of god, as that the same image should be understood to be in three human beings." (chapters 6 & 7) 

It is quit clear that the Bible says that man was made in the image of God. But to the Trinitarians, God is three in one, yet God said, "Let us make man in our image, after our likeness ... So God created man in his image, in the image of God created he him: male and female create he them." (Gen 1:26-27)  And the Bible says that these two, male and female, are called man (singular case) [Gen 1:27, 5:2] and these two are one. (Gen 2:24; Mark 10:6-8) But the Trinitarians have a problem. Their God is three in one not two in one as revealed in the Bible. Thus Augustine and those that follow must reject the obviousness of the maleness and femaleness of the creation: "For, as not only most true reason but also the authority of the apostle [Paul] himself declares [according to Augustine's  reasoning], man was not made in the image of God according to the shape of his body, but according to his rational mind." (bk 12, chapter 7)  But Mr. Augustine, what about?: "In Him [Christ] dwells all the fullness of the Godhead, bodily." (Col 2:9)  or "Adam .. who is the pattern [or type] of him [Christ] that was to come. (Rom 5:14; 1Cor 15:47) ) And what about the fact that it is impossible for three to be one in number. (GP1f) And what about the fact that the maleness and femaleness of the creation is the most obvious thing in the creation, and that they two become one.

 

Infinity of God

Trinity God

BeComingOne

Qualities

Comments

Qualities

Comments
1. Absolute Perfection

Absence of all limitation and defect

"Absence of all limitation" is too broad. the One Good God is limited; He cannot and will not sin. 1. Absolute Perfection

Only the One God is Good, thus is perfect and is love.

[Mat 5:45-48, 19:17; 1John 4:8]

But somehow God created evil (Isa 45:7); this has to mean (because of the basic law of knowledge) that He also created  good: thus there was no good or evil in the sense we know it before the creation.

Trinity God

BeComingOne

Qualities

Comments

Qualities

Comments
2. His Eternity

Duration through endless ages. We should remember, however, that in speaking as it does the Bible uses popular language of philosophy.

He is the eternal, "I am."

[Pss 90:2, 102:12; Eph 3:21. Exod 3:14 (Greek Text)]

They must use extra Biblical material to prove their definition here.

The "I am" quote does not prove that God is eternal, because first this was taken from a mistaken translation, and second, because "I am" in and of itself does not say God is eternal, but that he exits.

2. His Eternity

Power exists before creation and before the ages; Exists during the ages; Exists throughout the Great New Age that does not end

[He planned  and set in motions things before the creation of the universe (Eph 1:4)]

In order for God to be Almighty, then His power must always exist in one way or another, including through predestination.

Trinity God

BeComingOne

Qualities

Comments

Qualities

Comments
3. His Immensity

(More than omnipresence, also transcends all space and is not subjected to space limitations.) He transcends all spatial limitations.

God is spirit, not a spirit, since "a spirit" can only be in one definite spatial position at once.

[No scriptural proof given of this view that God transcends space.

See John 4:24 (Greek text)]

This view about transcending space has everything to do with Einstein's self-contradictory theories. It is not a Biblical view. 3. His Immensity

Omnipresence: Fills all space is everywhere

[1Kgs 8:27; Pss 139:7-10; Isa 66:1; Jer 23:23-24; Acts 7:48-49, 17:27-28]

Such Trinitarians' phrases as God "transcends space" and "exists in other dimensions" are a cover for their impossible theory.

     

 

Immutability of God

Trinity Viewpoint

BeComingOne Viewpoint

Some definitions of "immutability" from Systematic Theology:

1. Devoid of all change, not only in His Being, but also in His perfections, and in His purposes and promises.

1. "Devoid of all change" is too broad, makes God into a statue that cannot change. What about the Creation? Wasn't that new? Isn't the statement, "I make all things new," true? Or do words have any meaning to Trinitarians?

2.He is exalted above all becoming, and is free from all accession or diminution and from all growth or decay in His Being or perfections.

2. "He is exalted above all becoming" when His very Name means the BeComingOne?  Again the Trinitarians believe the Greek philosophers and the Greek mistaken translation of the Bible before they believe what scriptures say about God.

3. His knowledge and plans, His moral principles and volitions remain forever the same.

3. This is a naive and narrow view of knowledge, a contrary view of "plans," and a naive view of morals. What is moral between males and females depends if there are males and females. Before the Creation were there males and females? How can moral behavior between males and females exist forever, even before they were created?  How can a "plan" exist forever? To plan something means to plan ahead to do something in time. If a plan always existed, it is no longer a plan. Thus again Trinitarians must make a mockery of the meaning of words in order to continue in their great lie, for Trinitarianism is a great lie, against reason and against God.

4. Even reason teaches us that no change is possible in God, since a change is either for better or for worse.
4. This is taken straight from the Grecian philosophers, not from the Bible. (GP1g)
5. The divine immutability should not be understood as implying immobility, as if there were no movement in God.

6. There is change round about Him, change in the relations of men to Him, but there is no change in His Being, His attributes, His purpose, His motives of action, or His promises.

5 & 6. The Trinitarians here qualify their immutability theory because of scripture that shows God interacting with mankind.
7. The purpose to create was eternal with Him.

7. Another statement forced upon Trinitarians because of their immutability theory. How can this be? Are they saying God cannot learn, cannot grow in knowledge or to create new things?

8. If Scripture speaks of His repenting, changing, His intention, and altering His relation to sinners when they repent, we should remember that this is only an anthropopathis way of speaking. In reality the change is not in God, but in man and in man's relations to God.

8. But if God predestines, as scriptures state, then He gives mankind the power to change: it is God who produces the changes. Trinitarians forget about God's all powerfulness: His spirit and power was/is/ will be everywhere.

"Eran. -The term "immutable" is common to the Trinity, for it is impossible for part of the substance to be mutable and part immutable.

Orth.- You have well said, for as the term mortal is common to mankind, so are "immutable" and "invariable" to the Holy Trinity. So the only-begotten Son is immutable, as are both the Father that begat Him and the Holy Ghost.

(from, pp. 58-59 of the Nicene and Post-Nicene Fathers, Theodoret Dialogues I. "The Immutable")

If the only-begotten Son is immutable, then he was not born, did not die, was not resurrected, did not go to the Father, was not tempted, did not have emotions, and so forth. Thus to the Trinitarians thinking, it follows that: the fleshly Son manifested in the New Testament was not the Son, but a "

 

 

Scriptural Predictions of the Messiah/Seed Coming

and

Scripture Showing the Messiah/Seed Was Born

Read Seed Paper PP1

[The following is from the God Papers, Part 4]

Promised Son Of God, Seed Of David, and Eve

Jesus Christ was Prophesied to Come

gp350In the Old Testament it foretold the birth of Jesus Christ: "he shall cry unto Me, you art my Father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. Also I will make him My first born, higher than the kings of the earth" (Pss 89:26-27). "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government [rulership of God] shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, the mighty God, the duration Father, the Prince of Peace" (Isa 9:6). "I will declare the decree: the BeComingOne has said unto me, You art my Son; this day have I begotten you" (Pss 2:7; Heb 1:5).

gp351"The BeComingOne came unto Nathan, saying, Go and tell my servant David, Thus says the BeComingOne ... and when your days be fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, which shall proceed out of your bowels, and I will establish his [Christ's] kingdom. He shall build a house for my Name and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for olam. I will be his [Christ's] father, and he shall be my son" (2Sam 7:4-5,12-14).

Fulfillment

gp352The Bible also shows the fulfillment of these prophesies. "This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased" (Mat 3:17). "And I saw, and bare record that this is the Son of God" (John 1:34). "I come in my Father's name [the son of yhwh, thus Jesus had His Name]" (John 5:43). "Concerning his [God's] Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made of the seed of David according to the flesh" (Acts 2:30; Rom 1:3).

gp353Thus, Jesus is the Son of God as well as the seed of David as promised (Luke 3:23-38). Further Christ is the seed of Eve that was promised to bruise the head of Satan (Gen 3:15; Pss 91:13; Rom 16:20; see The "Seed Paper" [PR 1]).

Son of Man Through Mary

gp354Jesus Christ is called Son of God, but also he is called Son of man (Acts 7:56). Now to be a son of mankind, one needs to be human. Jesus was human for he was a son of Mary (Mark 6:3). "And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem (because he was of the house and lineage of David) to be taxed with Mary his espoused wife [notice not wife, but espoused wife; for Joseph hadn't consummated the marriage, see Mat 1:24-25], being large with a child ... And she brought forth her first-born son" (Luke 2:4-5,7). Thus another prophecy about Christ came true, "but you Bethlehem ... out of you shall he come forth unto me that is to be ruler in Israel" (Mic 5:2). Jesus was born in Bethlehem as prophesied in Micah and confirmed in Luke. "Therefore the BeComingOne himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel" (Isa 7:14).

gp355As we've shown you Joseph hadn't consummated the marriage, and after Gabriel had told Mary about the son that she was to bring forth, "said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?" (Luke 1:34) Mary was a virgin mother. "But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman" (Gal 4:4).

gp356Notice in Gal 4:4 that God's Son was "made" (KJV) or was "born" (NIV) of a woman. This word "made" is translated from a Greek word ginomai (# 1096) which means: "to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being" ( From the Greek Gal 4:4 reads:

  • "But when had come fullness of the time, the God sent forth the Son of Him, coming into existence from [or "out of"] a woman."

It says that God's Son was made out of a woman. This same Greek word, ginomai, is also found in two other closely related verses:

  • "Concerning his Son Jesus Christ our Lord, which was made [ginomai] of ['out of' -- Greek] the seed of David according to the flesh" (Acts 2:30; Rom 1:3).
  • "And the Word was made [ginomai] flesh" (John 1:14).

The Son of God first came into existence from a woman, who was flesh ("according to the flesh"), who was also a seed of David.

gp357Furthermore, these verses are related in meaning to 1John 4:2:

  • "By this you know the Spirit of God: Every spirit that confesses that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is of God" (NKJV).

The word translated "has come" is a Greek verb in its participle perfect tense (The Analytical Greek Lexicon). Christ did come in the flesh as the above verses indicate. In fact, he first came into existence through a woman. He had no pre-existence. The word "pre-existence" is a self contradiction. Scriptures prove that Jesus Christ the man did not exist before he was born from a woman (see later).

gp358Jesus Christ was a Son of mankind, not a product of man through a male and female union, but from mankind through his mother. Mary was Christ's mother, but Joseph was not his real father, for Joseph didn't "know" Mary. At that time Mary was a virgin. Thus, Jesus is a son of man or mankind through the medium of Mary only.

Virgin Birth

gp359Let's understand this virgin birth, and see how Jesus is a Son of God through being born from a woman:

  • "And the angel [Gabriel] said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for you have found favor with God. And, behold, you shall conceive in your womb, and bring forth a son, and shall call his name JESUS ... Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man? And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Spirit shall come upon you, and the power of the Highest [BeComingOne] shall overshadow you: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of you shall be called the Son of God" (Luke 1:30-31,34-35). And, "for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Spirit" (Mat 1:20).

gp360This is why the Bible calls Christ the Son of God. God, the highest power, the power of the Holy Spirit, conceived Jesus Christ in the womb of Mary. In this way, Christ is a Son of God. (In another way Christ is the Son of God, as Christians are sons of God, because he had the Spirit of God in him.) Through the power of God, Mary conceived, not through the power of a male's sperm. Basically, what the male's sperm does when it contacts a female's ovum (egg-cell) is to initiate a chemical-biological chain reaction. Through this chemical reaction the egg-cell grows into a child. Jesus Christ began as any other child from an ovum. But this egg-cell was fertilized not by a male's sperm, for Mary was a virgin. It was the power of God that fertilized this egg-cell that became Christ. How? God by merely duplicating the chemical code of a male's sperm conceived Jesus. Since God designed the ovum and sperm, he knows how they work and thus is able to initiate the chemical reaction in an ovum needed to produce a child. Through the power of God the Father, Mary conceived. In this way, God is the physical father of Jesus; Joseph is not the physical father of Jesus. Mary was a virgin to man, but not to God, for in a sense God "knew" Mary.

Middle Man: Son of God and Son of Man

gp361This is why Jesus Christ is called a mediator, "for there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus" (l Tim 2:5). Notice it was the man Jesus who was the mediator, not the resurrected Christ. Now "mediator" means middle man or middle one. The man Jesus Christ is the middle one between God and mankind. He was "Jesus of Nazareth, a man" (Acts 2:22). This offspring of Mary and God was the beginning of a union of man back to God.

Born of the Seed of David

Genealogy of Mary & Joseph

gp362But notice that Christ was born "of the seed of David according to the flesh" (Rom 1:3). Since Joseph is not the physical father of Christ, then Joseph's genealogy (Mat 1:1-16) is irrelevant. Therefore, in order for Jesus to be a seed of David, Mary must be a seed of David. And she is.

gp363Read Mat 1:1-15, "and Jacob begat Joseph the husband of Mary, out of whom was born Jesus, who is called Christ" (V. 16). From verse two to verse fifteen it says A begat B, and B begat C, and C begat D, etc. But in verse 16 it said that "Joseph was the husband of Mary, out of whom was born Jesus." It did not say Joseph begat Jesus, but it did say that Jesus came out of Mary. As we have seen before, God begat Jesus through Mary. This genealogy given in Mat 1:1-16 is of Joseph, the foster father of Christ, not the real father. We must look elsewhere to find Christ's human genealogy.

gp364In Luke 3:23-38 it traces Jesus Christ's real lineage from Mary's father Heli back to David, Judah, Abraham, Noah, and to Adam. This is the genealogy of Christ's mother's side of the Family.

gp365Notice in Mat 1:16 that it specifically says Jacob begat Joseph. Now see the wording in Luke 3:23, "and Jesus himself began to be about thirty years of age (being as supposed the son of Joseph) of Heli, of the Matthat..." (Luke 3:23-24). Jesus was supposed by the people around him, to be the son of Joseph, "Is not this [Christ] the carpenter's son?," they wondered about him (Mat 13:55). We know he was not the son of Joseph, but they supposed that he was the son of Joseph. Even If Christ told them he was not the son of Joseph, would they believe he came from a virgin mother? Luke 3:23 simply says Jesus was about 30, and that he was of Heli who was from Matthat, etc. This verse merely added that Jesus was "supposed the son of Joseph." In Mat 1:1-16 it specifically identifies the genealogy of Joseph, by the fact it said Jacob begat Joseph. In the Luke rendition it did not say Heli begat Joseph. How could Joseph have two human fathers anyway?

gp366Examine both of these genealogies in Matthew and Luke, they are different. Can Joseph have two genealogies? No, Matthew's account is Joseph's genealogy, and in Luke's is Mary's genealogy. In the Matthew's account it does not say Joseph begat Jesus, but Jesus came out of Mary. Compare each genealogy and you'll see they are different. From David down to Christ in each account, it is different except in two places.

Seed of Nathan

gp367Mary's lineage came from David's son Nathan. Nathan was a son of David as shown in 2Sam 5:14, while Joseph's lineage comes from Solomon. Notice further proof in Zech 12:12, "and the land shall mourn [in verses 10-11 it prophesies of people: first looking on Jesus on the cross; and second looking on Jesus when he returns, Rev 1:7], every family apart ['I am come to set a man at variance against his father, and daughter against her mother,' Mat 10:35]; the family of the house of David apart, and their wives apart; the family of the house of Nathan [Mary's family, Luke 3:31] apart, and their wives apart" (Zech 12:12).

[NOTE: Christ was on the cross, and possibly Christ's brothers were apart from their wives, and Joseph was apart from Mary (Joseph isn't mentioned at the end of the accounts of Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John -- he could have been dead or separated from his wife Mary). The Nathan Family was apart because some of them believed in Christ while others didn't. There is also a Spiritual meaning here. Christ had the Spirit of God and was apart from his brethren Spiritually up until the time they received the Spirit.]

gp368Mary came from Nathan's lineage, but Joseph from Solomon's, yet both from David since Nathan and Solomon were sons of David. Notice that in Joseph's and Mary's genealogy from David back to Abraham and beyond is the same. The break is from which son of David each genealogy came from. (See the notes for this part of the God Papers for an explanation on an apparent Biblical contradiction between Mary's and Joseph's genealogies concerning who begot Shealtiel.)

Christ's Lineage Review

gp369We have proved from scriptures that Jesus was a descendant of David as promised David (2Sam 7:4-5,12-14). Further, we saw that Jesus was the son of God. God (yhwh) begot Jesus the man through the power of the Holy Spirit (Luke 1:30-35). Thus, God is Jesus' physical Father (2Sam 7:4,12-14; Pss 2:7, 89:26-27; Heb 1:5). Therefore, Jesus is at once the Son of mankind and the Son of God.

gp370Jesus is the middle one between man and God, "one mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus" (l Tim 2:5). Jesus was flesh and blood, born of woman (Gal 4:4). And his physical birth was initiated through the power of God.

 

 

Scripture Showing the Messiah/Seed/Son did not Pre-exist

[The following taken from the God Papers, Part 4]

Jesus Christ the Man, the Son, did not Pre-exist

gp411How can someone "pre" exist? It is against the Law of Contradiction to say that Jesus the promised Messiah and Son of God existed before he existed. But since the "pre- existence" of Jesus Christ the man is a popular theory today, we are going to show you the evidence that he first came into existence when he was conceived or begotten in the womb of Mary. We will also look at the so-called scriptural evidence used by others to "prove" that Christ the man existed as some kind of "god" or "angel" before he was born.

The following is evidence that Jesus Christ the man, the Son, first came into existence when he was conceived in Mary's womb:

(1) Against the Law of Contradicition

gp412The biggest proof that Jesus Christ did not exist before he was born, is the evidence given in the introduction chapter of the God Papers: it would be against the very Law of Contradiction for an immortal being (a being not capable of death) to be changed into a being that is mortal in order for that being (Jesus Christ) to die, or for the being to be simultaneously immortal, yet capable of death (see GP 1, "Introduction").

(2) Jesus came into existence in the Flesh

gp413"By this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the FLESH, is of God" (l John 4:2, see NKJV & Greek). John gives those reading the Bible a test: IF someone does agree that Christ Jesus came in the flesh, then he is of God's Spirit. But further John says: "and every spirit [in man] that acknowledges that Jesus is not come in the flesh, is not of God: and this is the spirit of antichrist" (l John 4:3). Christ did not come as a transformed spirit, angel, or God, but he "has come in the flesh."

gp414And it was the "man Christ Jesus; who gave himself a ransom for all" (1Tim 2:5-6). It was not the Spirit of Christ that gave himself for mankind, but the "man Jesus Christ." The Spirit of Christ the man was inside Christ before his death; thus, Christ the man gave up his Spirit when he died (note Mat 27:50; Mark 15:37; Luke 23:46; John 19:30).

(3) Prophesied Seed Cannot Exist Before He Genetically Passes through the Fathers and then is Born

gp415"The BeComingOne came unto Nathan, saying, Go and tell my servant David, Thus says the BeComingOne ... and when your days be fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, which shall proceed out of your bowels, and I will establish his [Christ's] kingdom. He shall build a house for my Name and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for olam. I will be his [Christ's] father, and he shall be my son" (2Sam 7:4-5,12-14).

Look at this carefully. This is a prophecy of the Messiah. He must be a seed or offspring of David, but also the son of the God. How can he be a son of man and a son of God at the same time?

gp416This prophecy of God's Seed coming out of David who would also be God's son ("my son") pointed to the future when God would make his Son through the means of Mary. It was through Mary that God's only begotten son was made, not at some previous time:

  • "And the angel said to her, Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God. And behold, you will conceive in your womb and [will] bring forth a Son, and shall call his name Jesus. He will be great, and will be called the Son of the Highest" (Luke 1:30-32).
  •  

gp417Notice these emphasized words are in the future tense (see Greek text). God's Son did not exist before this time, and was not great before this time (except in the forethought of God). The angel was announcing the coming Son being born by a woman with the help of the Holy Spirit. The Son did not exist before these events.

  • "And Joseph also went up from Galilee, out of the city of Nazareth, into Judea, unto the city of David, which is called Bethlehem (because he was of the house and lineage of David) to be taxed with Mary his espoused wife [notice not wife, but espoused wife; for Joseph hadn't consummated the marriage, see Mat 1:24-25], being large with a child ... And she brought forth her first-born son" (Luke 2:4-5,7).

gp418Joseph hadn't consummated the marriage, for after Gabriel had told Mary about the son that she was to bring forth, "said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?" (Luke 1:34) Mary was a virgin mother. And with the help of the Holy Spirit Mary conceived a son (Luke 1:35, see above). "But when the fullness of the time was come, God sent forth his Son, made of a woman" (Gal 4:4).

(4) Born of a Woman

gp419Notice in Gal 4:4 that God's Son was "made" (KJV) or was "born" (NIV) of a woman. This word "made" is translated from a Greek word ginomai (# 1096) which means: "to become, i.e. to come into existence, begin to be, receive being" ( From the Greek Gal 4:4 reads: "But when had come fullness of the time, the God sent forth the Son of Him, coming into existence from [or 'out of'] a woman." It says that God's Son was made out of a woman. It did not say that before this event God existed with the Son. God's Son was made or came into existence from a woman by the power of the Holy Spirit (note earlier in this chapter).

(5) Son Speaks Now, Not in the Old Testament

gp420God didn't speak through the Son in "time past," but to the fathers of Israel by the prophets, but in the last days He speaks in his Son (Note Heb 1:1-2). God did not speak by His Son in the Old Testament times because, His Son did not exist at that time.

(6) Proof of Worshiping Angels

gp421"But again WHEN He [God] brings the firstborn into the world, He says: Let all the ANGELS of God worship Him" (Deut 32:43; Heb 1:6, Greek text). God brought His Son into the world by having him being made by a woman with the power of the Holy Spirit (see above). But when the Son came into the world angels were present to worship him. Thus, after the Son was born:

  • "Today in the town of David a Savior has been born to you; he is Christ the Lord. This will be a sign to you: You will find a baby wrapped in strips of cloth and lying in a manger. Suddenly a great company of the heavenly host [angels] appeared with the angel, praising God and saying, Glory to God in the highest, and on earth peace to men on whom his favor rests. And when the angels had left them and gone into heaven..." [Luke 2:11-15, NIV].

gp422With Heb 1:6 and Luke 2:11-15 we see when (at Jesus's physical birth) and how (with the angels worshiping him) the first born of God came into the world; He (the man Jesus) did not exist before Mary conceived him in her womb, except in the forethought of God

(7) Spirit and Flesh

gp423All the so-called "pre-existence" scriptures can be shown to refer to Christ the man's Spirit or angel existing before Christ the man. The Spirit of Christ the man was the angel of the BeComingOne or the angel of Jehovah (yhwh) as we have so far explained in the God Papers (GP 3). The Spirit of Christ and the fleshly Christ the man are just as different as a man and a woman in marriage even though according to the Bible they are ONE in marriage. That is why Paul said that our fathers passed through the sea, baptized unto Moses in the cloud and in the sea, by the spiritual rock: "and that Rock was Christ" (1Cor 10:1-4). The "spiritual Rock" (1Cor 10:4) was Christ even though Christ himself was not even born yet during Moses' time because:

  • (1) Paul was talking about the "spiritual Rock that followed them [the fathers]" (1Cor 10:4)
  • and (2) Paul was talking about Christ in an ex post facto manner as one uses a married woman's marital name even when speaking about some event that happened before she was married (see gp344).
(8) Summarized Evidence against Pre-existence Theory

gp424Jesus Christ the man was/is the only begotten or born Son of God (John 1:18; 1John 4:9). The scriptures we covered above indicate when and how this Son was born: He did not exist before he was begotten; He was not begotten twice for He is the only begotten Son of God. (There are two senses to Jesus being the only begotten Cant -- physical and Spiritual. We speak here of the special physical sense as explained in this chapter.)

gp425Again, we repeat, there is no way for an immortal being to die. Most, if not all, of those who believe that Jesus Christ existed before he was a man have him existing as an immortal being (an angel or God). There is no way an immortal being can die, for if he ever does die he proves he was never immortal, but mortal.

gp426Some, but not all, who argue for the so-called "pre-existence" of Christ the man are not thinking through their beliefs and are unknowingly participating in the "big lie":

  • "The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders, and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved. For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but have delighted in wickedness" (2Thess 2:9-12).

gp427It is a powerful delusion to believe in the contradiction of the Trinitarian theory. But since most, if not all of us, at least subconsciously, act in our daily lives as if they know the Law of Contradiction, then we are in a sense knowingly participating in the "big lie" if we believe in the contradictory Trinitarian theory. At one time I "believed" in the Trinitarian theory, but was puzzled by it: on a certain level I believed; on a different level I did not believe. This is not the only delusion we are under. There are just as big contradictions in various fields of "science."

Pre-existence Theory: Refuting their Evidence

Let's look at some of the scripture others use to "prove" their "pre-existence" theory:

(1) In the Beginning was the Word, which beginning?

gp428"In the beginning was the Word ... the Word was toward the God ... All things were made through him ... In him was life ... And the Word became flesh" (John 1:1-4,14, see Greek).

But which beginning was John speaking about?:

  • (1) the beginning of the Good News of Jesus Christ (Mark 1:1) as witnessed by the disciples of Jesus ( Luke 1:2; John 15:27; 1John 1:1); or (2) the beginning of the creation (Gen 1:1) Since John spoke about the "beginning" in his Gospel and letters, it is John's meaning in (1) above that should clarify this verse. Yet the Genesis' "beginning" also applies, being true through the Spirit of Jesus, but not true through the flesh of Jesus, for the flesh of Jesus only existed after his birth from Mary.

gp429The word, "Word," was translated from the Greek word, logos. This Greek word means, "something said (including the thought)." "Logos" not only indicated the word spoken, but can also indicate the reason or thought behind the word. But a word is spoken, that is, a word is spoken by someone. The "Word" in the beginning was spoken by the God through His angel or messenger for it was through angels that God spoke in the Old Testament times (cf Heb 1:1-2 w/ 2:2-5):

  • "And God said, let there be light: and there was light" (Gen 1:3).

This is some proof that the Word and the true God are not one and the same in the fullest sense: the Word comes from God, and is spoken ("God said") from God, but is not the God. We have explained already in the Word chapter that the Word was carried by the angel of God. Also in the Greek it says, "the Word was toward the God" not the Word was "with" God (John 1:1; cf. John 13:3). And the Greek says, "and God was the Word," not the Word was God. The Word cannot be toward the God and at the same time be the true God in the fullest sense. As shown in the Word chapter (GP 3) there is a very close relationship between the Word or angel of God and the God, and as we will show in a later chapter, the Word is indeed toward the true God, but is not the God in the fullest sense of God all in all. The Word of God was/is closely related to God, for it carries with it the power of God, for what God says will happen. God does not lie (see GP 5 for more details on John 1:1-18 and the rest of the God Papers).

gp430The Word became flesh in the truest sense after the death of Christ the man (see GP 5). Another sense of John 1:14 ("And the Word became flesh") is that during Christ the man's life on earth the Word was inside the flesh (see this chapter, GP 4)

(2) Whose going forth was from of Old ...

gp431This verse is speaking about the place of the birth of Jesus, and is mostly incorrectly translated into something like this:

  • "And you Bethlehem Ephratah... out of you shall he come forth unto me to be Ruler in Israel: whose going forth are from of old, from the days of eternity" (Mic 5:2).

It looks like the Messiah comes from past eternity. The problem is that "eternity" should be translated olam which as explained in the "Age Paper" (NM7) means an age of unknown length. In one sense Jesus Christ's going forth was from the very old days, for since the beginning God had been prophesying his coming. And the second meaning is that the Spirit in Christ was from the old days, since the Spirit in Christ existed from the beginning of creation. In fact this very Spirit created the universe. The man, the Messiah born in Bethlehem, did not exist in the old days, for he first came into the world through Mary, but his "going forth" by prophecy was from even before the very beginning for he was predestinated before the cosmos (1Pet 1:19-20) and he was the seed prophesied in Genesis (Gen 3:15).

gp432Other scriptures such as Prov 8:22-23 and John 8:58 can be explained in this way: Christ's Spirit existed before the man Jesus was born. This is the same for us. Our own Spirit has existed since the beginning, but we were born in this age, a long time after the beginning. After we are infused with our Spirit in the resurrection, we can say in a sense that we existed from the beginning since our own Spirit existed from the beginning even though there were many years after the beginning before we were born.

(3) Jesus Christ Existed Before He was Born Only in God's Fore-Thoughts and Plans

gp433"And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began" (John 17:5). The Greek word translated "had" here is an imperfect Greek verb that means "to possess" or "to hold." Christ possessed in some imperfect or incomplete sense (remember the verb is in the imperfect or incomplete tense) glory before the world began.

gp434Christ was predestinated to possess the glory of God after he was born and thereafter was to obtain the Kingdom of God and its glory; in the Old Testament it foretold the birth of Jesus Christ:

  • "He shall cry unto Me, you art my Father, my God, and the rock of my salvation. Also I will make him My first born, higher than the kings of the earth" (Pss 89:26-27).
  • "For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government [rulership of God] shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counselor, the mighty God, the duration Father, the Prince of Peace" (Isa 9:6).
  • "I will declare the decree: the BeComingOne has said unto me, You art my Son; this day have I begotten you" (Pss 2:7; Heb 1:5).
  • "The BeComingOne came unto Nathan, saying, Go and tell my servant David, Thus says the BeComingOne ... and when your days be fulfilled, and you shall sleep with your fathers, I will set up your seed after you, which shall proceed out of your bowels, and I will establish his [Christ's] kingdom. He shall build a house for my Name and I will establish the throne of his kingdom for olam. I will be his [Christ's] father, and he shall be my son" (2Sam 7:4-5,12-14).
  • "And behold, you will conceive in your womb and bring forth a Son, and shall call his name Jesus. And he will reign over the house of Jacob for aeonian, and of his kingdom there will be no end" (Luke 1:31,33).

gp435Just as Jeremiah was known before he was born, and was ordained a prophet before he was born (Jer 1:4-5), just as Paul was "appointed" an apostle before the world began (2Tim 1:9,11), just as Christians are chosen before the world began (2Tim 1 Per 1:2; 2Thess 2:13; see "Predestination Paper" [NM8]), is how Jesus Christ possessed the glory of God before the world began. Before the world began Jesus possessed the glory in an imperfect or incomplete sense: thus the use of the imperfect Greek verb ("I had" -- KJV) in John 17:5. It was in an incomplete sense because he at the beginning did not yet have the glory, but was predestinated to have it.

gp436But when Jesus Christ the man was predestinated before the world began he did not at that time possess the glory because at that time he did not exist as the Son of God, nor did the great glory of God exist before the world began: the great glory of God is coming, not here yet. In the truest sense, the glory of the God will exist when the BeComingOne (yhwh) has come (see GP 6, "Glory of God," and rest of the God Papers). Such verses as Mic 5:2 can be explained in the way we explained John 17:5.

(4) Jesus Christ Existed in Heaven Before His Birth? How?

gp437The scriptures that apparently say that Jesus Christ the man existed in heaven before his birth can be explained by the fact that Christ the man spoke the words of God, it was the Word of God or the angel of God inside Jesus the man that existed before Christ was born (see above under, "God Inside Christ"). Such verses as John 1:30, 3:13,31, 6:33,38,51, 8:23,42,58; 1Cor 10:4; Col 1:17 and so forth can be explained in this way. As we will learn in GP 6 we also have a spirit or angel that existed before we were born. Does that mean we existed before we were born just because our spirit existed before we were born?

(5) Jesus Christ Created All Things? How?

gp438The scriptures that seem to say that Jesus Christ the man created all things can be explained by the fact the Word or Spirit of the God was inside Christ the man, and it was this Word of God that created the present universe (Gen 1:1,3; Pss 33:6 ["and God Another sense of Jesus Christ creating all is explained in the next chapter. Read all the God Papers to understand still more fully the meaning of the verses that seem to indicate that Christ did/will create all. Some of these verses are John 1:1-4,10; Col 1:16; Heb 1:2.

(6) Personification of Wisdom

gp439The scripture in Prov 8:22-31, concerning the personification of Wisdom, where "The BeComingOne possessed me [Wisdom] in the beginning of his way before the works of old" can be explained by the fact Jesus the man had the Spirit or angel of Wisdom inside him (see above under, "God Inside Christ," note Isa 11:2, 42:1).

(7) Jesus Christ Humbled or Emptied Himself?

gp440The scriptures that seems to say the "pre-existent" Christ "emptied himself" or "humbled himself" of his pre-birth glory or power to be born or transformed or incarnated as Christ the man can be explained by the fact that inside Christ the man was the Word or angel with the Name of God. It was the Spirit inside Christ the man that humbled himself by being restricted inside a human being while that being was being humbled by the ignorant around him. And it was the man Jesus Christ the coming king who was also humbled, for he knew he was predestinated by God to be king of the whole world, yet he was treated with irreverence. These scriptures are 2Cor 8:9; Phil 2:6-8.

(8) Trinitarians' Bias

gp441Most, if not all, who point to the scriptures that seem to say that Christ the man existed before he was born, speak of that pre-existent Christ as God (i.e. in the "Trinity" God), or a God, or an angel. But God is immortal and angels do not die (Luke 20:36). Therefore such an immortal being cannot be converted or transformed or incarnated into a being that can die. This is foolishness (See Introduction chapter under, "Law of Contradiction").

Jesus and His Father Were Two

before his resurrection and going to the Father

See God Papers, parts 2-5

John 2:19-21, 3:16, 4:34, 5:18,20-22,43, 6:38-39,57, 7:16,28,33, 8:16-17,26,29,42,54, 10:18, 12:49, 13:1,3,20, 14:11,13-14,23-24 (Deut 18:18); 14:28; 16:5; 16:17; 16:28; 16:32; 17:1; 17:3; 17:7-8; 17:11: 17:21-22;


Pss 2:1-2; Acts 2:22-36 w/ Acts 4:24-28, 5:30;

God's Spirit leaves Christ, Mat 27:50; Mark 15:37; Luke 23:46; John 19:30

 

God the Father inside Christ the Man

Christ the Man not God

before his resurrection and going to the Father

[The following was taken from the God Papers, Part 4]

God inside Christ The Man

gp371But Jesus had another facet about him: he had God's Spirit inside him. God's Spirit was not him, but inside him. This is very important:

  • "The BeComingOne has called me [Christ] from the womb; from the bowels of my mother has he made mention of my name [see Luke 1:26-32]. And he [BeComingOne] has made my mouth like a sharp sword [word of God, cf Eph 6:17; Rev 1:16] ... the BeComingOne that formed me [Christ] from the womb His servant, to bring Jacob again to Him ... and my God shall be my strength ... I [the BeComingOne] will also give you [Christ] for a light to the Gentiles" (Isa 49:l-2, 5-6; cf Luke 2:32).

gp372God gave Jesus a "sharp sword" (word of God) and God was Christ's strength. It was God who gave his strength and words to Christ. Christ didn't speak his own words or use his own power. Notice,"behold my [the BeComingOne's] servant, whom I uphold; mine elect, in whom my soul delights; I have put my spirit upon him: he shall bring forth judgment to the Gentiles" (Isa 42:l). "And the spirit of the BeComingOne shall rest upon him, the spirit of wisdom and understanding, the spirit of counsel and might, the spirit of knowledge and of the fear of the BeComingOne" (Isa 11:2). This "spirit of wisdom" is the same "wisdom" pictured in Prov 8:22ff. The "spirit of wisdom" is God's Spirit.

gp373Jesus was prophesied to receive the BeComingOne's spirit of wisdom, knowledge, and so on. Did he receive it? "The words that I speak unto you I speak not of myself: but the Father that lives in me, he does the works" (John 14:10). Notice that the Father, the BeComingOne's Spirit, was inside him and this Spirit, did the works. Even the words of knowledge that Christ spoke were from the BeComingOne as Isa 11:2; John 8:38, 12:49-50, 14:10,24 prove. Jesus was set forth distinctively from men, not merely by his resurrection (Rom 1:4), but by his works; Jesus says his Father did the works (John 14:10).

Spirit in Jesus was the Angel of God

gp374But since angels are spirits (Heb 1:7; compare Heb 1:13 w/1:14), since angels are messengers, and since messengers are word carriers, then the Spirit in Christ was an angel. In fact it was the very angel of the BeComingOne (yhwh). It was this angel who was the Word of God, who carried the words of the BeComingOne (see GP 3).

gp375It was the Spirit or the angel of God in Christ the man that did the good works. Jesus was sinless (John 8:46) and it was the Spirit in him that did these works. Jesus was a human being, but he had the BeComingOne's Spirit or mind inside him. He was not Spirit himself, for if he were spirit, one could not see him (John 3:8). The man Jesus was flesh and blood, he was human, with the BeComingOne's Spirit inside him. "God was manifest in the flesh" of Christ (1Tim 3:16). "That God was in Christ" (2Cor 5:19).

gp376"And she [Mary] shall bring forth a son, and you shall call his name Jesus for he shall save his people from their sins. Now all this was done, that it might be fulfilled which was spoken of the Lord [BeComingOne] by the prophet, saying, Behold, a virgin shall be with child, and shall bring forth a son, and they shall call his name Immanuel, which being interpreted is, GOD WITH US" (Mat 1:21-23). Names are used in the Bible to identify characteristics of people. Immanuel, one of Jesus's names, means, "God with us." INSIDE Christ, God was with the world. Christ the man was not God, but God was inside him. Jesus was man only, until his resurrection from the dead and his ascension to the Father.

Jesus Christ Came In The Flesh, Anointed by the Spirit

gp377Notice, "by this you know the Spirit of God: every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the FLESH, is of God" (l John 4:2, see NKJV & Greek). John gives those reading the Bible a test: IF someone does agree that Christ Jesus came in the flesh, then he is of God's Spirit. But further John says: "and every spirit [in man] that acknowledges that Jesus is not come in the flesh, is not of God: and this is the spirit of antichrist" (l John 4:3). Jesus was the Christ; He was the Messiah. Jesus was thus the promised anointed one. He was anointed by the Spirit of God. He was anointed by the very Word of God. If Jesus the man was the very Word of God, then how could he have been anointed by the Spirit? If Jesus was already Spirit why would he be anointed again with the Spirit again? Was he anointed by himself? No Jesus came in the flesh, as a human being, and then was anointed by the Spirit. The Savior of mankind came in the flesh with the Spirit of God inside him. But this does not mean he saves us in or by his former state as a man. We are saved by his resurrected life, not by his human life or death, but by his new life.

Jesus Christ The Man Was Not God

gp378Jesus was not God before his resurrection. Jesus was a man with God's Spirit inside him as many scriptures prove (John 10:38, 14:10; 1Tim 3:16; etc.). Jesus Christ before his resurrection was a man: "the man Christ Jesus" (l Tim 2:5).

Came From God

gp379"He [Christ] came from God, and went to God" (John 13:3). The literal translation from the Greek of this verse reads: "and that from God he came out of and to the God goes." Jesus Christ came out of God. He was a physical offspring of God, as shown before, through the power of God. And, "I came out from God. I came forth from the Father, and am come into the world; again, I leave the world, and go to the Father" (John 16:27-28). By the fact that God was Christ's "physical" father, by the power of the Father, Christ indeed come out of the Father in the same sense that a son comes from his father's physical seed. (There is a dual sense here, see later.) "Now are we sure that you know all things, and need not that any man should ask you: by this we believe that you came forth from God" (John 16:30). If one is from or out of something, he is not that thing. Christ the man was from God, he was not God.

They were Two

gp380 There is an abundance of scripture that indicates that Jesus Christ the man and His Father were two distinctive individuals or beings at one time:

  • sender-sent: The fact that Jesus was sent by his Father means he is someone other than the sender (John 4:34, 6:38-39,57),
  • two wills: the fact that he came not to do his will but the will of him who sent him shows two wills (John 6:38),
  • two witnesses: the fact that Jesus Christ the man spoke about the law of two witnesses and that he was not alone (monos), comparing himself as one witness and his Father as the other witness indicates two (John 8:16-18),
  • not alone: the fact that Jesus Christ spoke about himself not being alone (monos or only) because his Father who sent him was with him indicates two (John 8:29, 16:32),
  • not his words: the fact that Jesus doesn't say his own words ("not from myself") but his Father's words indicate he was not the Father (John 12:49, 14:24),
  • "we": the fact that Jesus spoke of himself and his Father as "we" indicates two (John 14:23),
  • from-going back: the fact that Jesus came from the Father and was going back indicates two (John 16:28),
  • "nor me": the fact that Jesus said that men didn't know his Father "nor me [Christ]" indicates two (John 16:3),
  • Father greater: the fact that Jesus called the Father greater than himself indicates two (John 14:28),
  • sent by the only God: the fact that Jesus Christ said he was sent by the only (monos) true God indicates two (John 17:3),
  • prayed to the Father: the fact that Jesus Christ the man prayed to his Father indicates two (John 14:16, 17:1 ff),
  • resurrected by God: If he was raised by God (Acts 2:24,32, 13:33-37), at the time he was raised by God, how could he be God? No there were two, the one resurrecting, and the one resurrected,
  • not yet returned to the Father: the fact that Jesus said he had yet to return to his Father and called his Father "my Father and your Father"indicate that Jesus Christ the man and God the Father were two (John 20:17),
  • God made him both Lord and Christ: this speaks of two, the who made Jesus Lord and Christ, and Jesus who was made by God, both Lord and Christ (Acts 2:36).

All the above and other scripture indicate that Jesus Christ the man and his Father were two before Jesus was resurrected and went to the right side of his Father. Yet other scripture indicates somehow they were one (John 10:30) in a way similar to the way Christians are one in God (John 17:11,21-23; see 1Cor 12:12ff). When Jesus Christ the man was on earth before his resurrection he was separate from his Father, yet he was ONE in a Spiritual sense, since Christ the man acted as his Father directed (John 12:49-50).

A Mediator is Not God

gp381"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the MAN Christ Jesus ... Now a mediator is not of one, but God is one" (l Tim 2:5; Gal 3:20). Jesus Christ the man as a mediator was not God, but God was inside him, for the Spirit lived inside him.

Angel of the BeComingOne Was in Christ the Man

gp382Word of God in Jesus. Jesus was a Spiritually begotten Son of God through the Spirit inside him. Jesus had inside him the very Spirit or the angel of the BeComingOne. The BeComingOne being the Father because the Power of the BeComingOne predestinated all, thus in this sense the BeComingOne is the Father, while the angel was the messenger and agent of the Father. The archangel (as the messenger of the Father) was actually inside his mind Spiritually leading him. Since Spirit takes up no space (as some imagine space), it can and does live anywhere, including inside a human mind. Since "angel" is a translation from a word meaning "messenger," then the Spiritual Messenger of God the Father was inside Jesus the man's head giving him Spiritual messages that enabled him to fulfill God's will. In a sense, this angel was the Word of God -- the Word of the BeComingOne.

gp383And again, here is some proof that this Spirit or angel of God the Father was inside Jesus the man:

  • One of Christ's names tells us this: "Immanuel" means God with us. God was with man, by the fact His Spirit was inside Christ.
  • Paul said God was manifested in the flesh (1Tim 3:16). This means by the context of the chapter that God was in Christ, not as the flesh of Christ. If God was as the flesh of Christ, it means God died with Jesus on the cross. But since God is immortal, then God could not and did not die on the cross (see GP 1). To refute this is to say that God lied when through scripture he said that spiritual beings like angels cannot die (Luke 20:36). How can an immortal being die? How can someone that cannot die, die?
  • Jesus said "the son of man shall give you, because God the Father has set His seal on Him" (John 6:27). Jesus was sealed by the God with the Holy Spirit as Christians are sealed: "And do not grieve the Holy Spirit of God, with which you were marked with a seal for the day of redemption" (Eph 4:32; see 2Cor 1:22; Eph 1:13).
  • "That is, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself" (2Cor 5:19). God's mark or seal was on Christ the man. He had God's Spirit, God's angel, God's Word, in him. Again God was in Christ.

Christ Suffered, Can God Suffer?

gp384Jesus Christ the man, from a regular ovum in Mary, grew into a man who was sinless (Heb 4:15) because of the power of the Spirit in him. He was only given what was needed for his commission as the man Jesus Christ. He was given God's Spirit that produced the wisdom of Christ the man (Isa 11:2-4) and the great works (John 14:10). But he was given only just enough to do this. He "who in the days of his flesh, when he had offered up prayer and supplications with strong crying and tears unto Him that was able to save him from death, and was heard in that he feared" (Heb 5:7). Jesus had to cry aloud to his Father for help, "but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin" (Heb 4:15). Because of this, the resurrected Christ, "in that he himself has suffered being tested, he is able to help them that are tested" (Heb 2:18). Can God suffer or was God inside of Christ, not as Christ?

gp385We will explain later how Jesus became God, or we should say was infused into the true God, after being resurrected to the right side of the true God. This may be confusing until you understand who or what is the true God. But for now let's go into more details to prove God's Spirit was inside Christ the MAN.

God Not As Christ, But inside Christ

Men as Temples of the Living God

gp386God was manifested in the flesh of Christ (1Tim 3:16). And one of Jesus Christ's names ("Immanuel") meant "God with us" (Mat 1:23). But we have shown you that Jesus before his death was not God, but God was inside him. Human beings are called temples of God and God lives inside these temples, if these individuals are Spiritual Christians. "For we are the temple of the living God" (2Cor 6:16). Even Jesus the man was the temple of his Father's Spirit: "Jesus answered them. 'Destroy this temple, and I will raise it again in three days.' The Jews replied, 'It has taken forty-six years to build this temple, and you are going to raise it in three days?' But the temple he had spoken of was his body" (John 2:19-21).

gp387Although God the Father through his Spiritual messenger initiated the chemical process in one of Mary's eggs that produced Christ, God didn't put himself or transform himself with or as the flesh of Christ. God in a sense begot Christ, through a chemical process (created sperm) to produce the MAN Christ in the womb of Mary. At that time, God was not man, thus he did not have physical sperm with genes in it. No physical genes from God went into the ovum that produced Christ, for God being Spirit had no human sperm when he produced Christ the man. Nor did a Spiritual "sperm" enter the ovum, or else Jesus would have been part Spirit. But God did put his Spirit into the mind of Christ. And it is this Spirit of God that led Christ as it leads all sons of God (Rom 8:14) that are sons in the Spiritual or antitypical sense.

Spirit Did the Works With Jesus

gp388And it was through this Spirit in him that Jesus did the great works (John 14:10). Yet just because it was the Spirit inside him that did the great works, this doesn't mean the man Jesus did nothing. The Spirit in him worked and produced Christ's good Spiritual fruit as the sap in trees produce the fruit. Yet, as the sap needs the branches and the leaves to produce the fruit, so does the Spirit need a body to produce the good fruit. As the leaves and the branches help with the work, so did Christ the man help the Spirit produce the good fruit. Yet without the Spirit no one can produce good fruit, as no branch can produce fruit without the sap from the trunk and roots of the tree. The Spirit is the energy needed to produce the good fruit, as the sap is the energy needed to produce the fruit. They need each other to produce. The Spirit in Christ worked and led Jesus just enough for Jesus the man to be sinless. God gives enough Spiritual power for a person to do what is asked of him (Rom 8:28ff; see

Paul is an example.

gp389Paul was "appointed a preacher, and an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles" by God (Acts 9:15; 2Tim 1:11). And what did God answer Paul about a problem he had: "my Grace is sufficient for you" (2Cor 12:9). "But by the grace of God I am what I am: and his grace which was bestowed upon me was not in vain; but I labored [he did his appointed work] more abundantly than they all: YET NOT I, but the grace of God which was with me" (1Cor 15:10). The grace of God did Paul's work, as the grace of God, or the Spirit of God, or the New-Mind did the works of Christ (John 14:10).

 

Jesus and His Father Acted as One

before his resurrection and going to the Father

John 2:19, 6:33-35,51,63, 12:44, 14:8-11, 18:24; 0:30; 17:11, 21-22; see GP4  

 

Jesus and His Father Became One

after his resurrection and going to the Father

John 20:28; Titus 2:13; 1John 5:20; see GP5  

 

Scripture Showing All Going into Jesus Christ's Body

after his resurrection and going to the Father

1Cor 15:27-28; 2Cor 5:18; Eph 1:10,23; Col 1:19-20; see GP6  

 


Three in One: "In this one Divine Being there are three Persons ... the Divine essence, which is not only generically, but also numerically, one." (Systematic Theology, by Berkhof)


To Trinitarians Christ as part of the Trinity was not changeable, thus Christ's Body was "taken," not really born or changed from his so-called preexistence

[Following comments in blue by Walter Dolen]

Taking Flesh
"If then there is one substance of the Trinity, and it is immutable, then the only begotten Son, who is one person of the Trinity, is immutable. And, if He is immutable, He was not made flesh by mutation, but is said to have been made flesh after taking flesh." (Post-Nicene Fathers, Series II, Vol. III, Theodoret, Dialogue I.- "The Immutable: Demonstrations by Syllogisms") [
The question I have is from whom was this body stolen or taken?]

More on "taking flesh" or "taking a body"

"For we shall be like to God in this too, but only to the Son, because He only in the Trinity to take a body, in which He died and rose again, and which He carried with Him to heaven above" (Augustine, On the Trinity, bk 14, chap 18)

For if they say the Son is mortal from having taken our flesh, then it is not the Father alone without the Son who hath immortality; because His Word also has immortality, by which all things were made. For He did not therefore lose His immortality, because He took mortal flesh; [What the Trinitarians overlook here is that the Son was born of Mary and the Holy Spirit and did not exist with the Father before his birth except in His predestinated plans; the Father and Son were not One in the truest sense (1Tim 2:5 w/ Gal 3:20) before Christ was resurrected and went to the Father and became One with the Father at that time. But of course, the Trinitarian theory believes the Son and Father always existed, thus they cannot see this in scripture because of their mindset.] ...  Whence, they say, the following texts do not belong to the Trinity, but singularly and properly to the Father only: "Now unto the King eternal, immortal, and invisible, the only wise God;" and, "Who only hath immortality, dwelling in the light which no man can approach unto; whom no man hath seen, nor can see." (bk 2, chap 9) [What is misunderstood here is that the Son after his resurrection and going to the Father became One with the Father's Spirit and thus has immortality with the Father; he is now the king of "olam" not eternality. See our New Mind Papers to understand this aspect.]

The following is from the Post-Nicene Fathers with comments by Walter Dolen:

"That God the Word is Immutable

1. We have confessed one substance of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, and have agreed that it is immutable. If then there is one substance of the Trinity, and it is immutable, then the only begotten Son, who is one person of the Trinity, is immutable. And, if He is immutable, He was not made flesh by mutation, but is said to have been made flesh after taking flesh. [To the Trinitarians Christ was not born or came in the flesh, but he "took" flesh. I beg your pardon, but the scripture clearly says he was made flesh, he was born. The Trintarians think wrongly that if they say he "took" flesh that they can keep him unchangeable. They can do this only by ignoring scripture and changing the meaning of words.]

2. If God the Word was made flesh by undergoing mutation into flesh, then He is not immutable. For no one in his senses would call that which undergoes alteration immutable. And if He is mutable He is not of one substance with Him that begat Him. How indeed is it possible for one part of an uncompounded substance to be mutable and the other immutable? If we grant this we shall fall headlong into the blasphemy of Arius and Eunomius, who assert that the Son is of another substance. [Trinitarians are in a logical box and that is why they were forced to kill those in the old days who dared to go against their theory. The Son was born and was another substance, that is flesh. But the Son went to the Father and became One with the Father.]

3. If the Lord is consubstantial with the Father, and the Son was made flesh by undergoing change into flesh, then the substance is at once mutable and immutable, which blasphemy if any one has the hardihood to maintain, he will no doubt make it worse by his blasphemy against the Father, for inasmuch as the Father shares the same substance, he will assuredly call Him mutable. [Again because of the Trinitarians wrong belief pertaining to the so-called unchangeableness of God, they are caught in a box in which they must ignore the plain meaning of the scripture. Only after the Son went to the Father was he "consubstantial" with the Father.]

4. It is written in the divine Scriptures that God the Word took flesh, and also a soul. And the most divine Evangelist says the Word was made flesh. We must therefore perforce do one of two things: either we must admit the mutation of the Word into flesh, and reject all divine Scripture, both Old and New, as teaching lies, or in obedience to the divine Scripture, we must confess the assumption of the flesh, banishing mutation from our thoughts, and piously regarding the word of the Evangelist. This latter we must do inasmuch as we confess the nature of God the Word to be immutable, and have countless testimonies to the assumption of the flesh. [Assumption of flesh?? Didn't scripture say the Word was made flesh? Again in order to save their illogical theory they must ignore scripture and change the clear meaning of words.They don't understand the time order of events because they wrongly believe God is timeless and cannot change.]

5. That which inhabits a tabernacle is distinct from the tabernacle which is inhabited. The Evangelist calls the flesh a tabernacle, and says that God the Word tabernacled therein. "The Word," he says, "was made flesh and dwelt among us." Now if He was made flesh by mutation, He did not dwell in flesh. But we have been taught that He dwelt in flesh; for the same Evangelist in another place calls His body a temple. We must therefore believe the Evangelist's explanation and interpretation of what to some seemed ambiguous. [There is nothing ambiguous about the Word being made flesh, if you believe that God can change his form, but if you like the Trinitarians believe wrongly that God cannot change, then of course you must find ambiguity where there is none.]

6. If when the Evangelist wrote "the Word was made flesh" he had added nothing which could remove the ambiguity, perhaps the controversy about the passage might have had some reasonable excuse, from the obscurity of the terms used. [Obscurity? only to those who wrongly believe that God cannot change.]  But since he immediately went on to say "and dwelt in us," the combatants contend to no purpose. The former clause is explained by the latter. The immutability of God the Word is plainly proclaimed by the most wise Evangelist, for after saying "the Word was made flesh and dwelt among us," he immediately adds, "And we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only-begotten of the Father, full of grace and truth." But if, according to the foolish, He had undergone mutation into flesh, He would not have remained what He was, [Again the wrongful immutability theory interferes with the clear meaning of the scriptures; it is impossible to the Trinitarians for any change to occur to God, thus they must ignore scripture or rationalize away any scripture that says that there was any change to God. Something new happened after Christ went to the Father: God became One with flesh; two became One.] but if even when enveloped in the flesh He emitted the rays of His Father's nobility, it follows that the nature which He has is immutable, and it shines even in the body and sends abroad the brightness of the nature which is unseen. For that light nothing can dim. "For the light shineth in the darkness, and the darkness comprehendeth it not,"6 as saith the very divine John.

8. The illustrious Evangelist was desirous of explaining the glory of the only-begotten, but was unable to carry out his purpose. [Yes John was unable to carry out the purpose of the Trinitarians, for he said that the Word became flesh. Now the Trinitarians must down grade clear scripture in order to keep their theory.] He therefore shews it by His fellowship with the Father. For he says He is of that nature; just as though any one to persons beholding Joseph sunk in a slavery inconsistent with his rank, and unaware of the splendour of his descent, were to point out that Jacob was his father, and his forefather Abraham. So in this sense the Evangelist said that when He dwelt among us He did not dim the glory of His nature, "For we beheld His glory, the glory as of the only-begotten of the Father." So if even when He was made flesh it was plain who He was, then He remained who he was, and did not undergo the mutation into flesh. [Again the immutability theory is king and scriptures second to it.]

9. We have confessed that God the Word took not a body only but also a soul. Why then did the divine Evangelist omit in this place mention of the soul and mention the flesh alone? Is it not plain that he exhibited the visible nature and by its means signified the nature united to it? For the mention of the soul is understood of course in that of the flesh. For when we hear the prophet saying "Let all flesh bless His holy name," we do not understand the prophet to be exhorting bodies of flesh without souls, but believe the whole to be summoned to give praise in the summoning of a part.

10. The words "the Word was made flesh" are plainly indicative not of mutation, but of His unspeakable loving-kindness. [Please, please don't take us to be fools. It is clear what was said here, but again the immutability theory is king to the Trinitarians.] For after the illustrious Evangelist had said "in the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God and the Word was God," and had declared Him to be Creator of the visible and invisible, and had called Him life and true light, adding other similar expressions, and had spoken concerning the Godhead in such terms as human reason can take in and the language at its command can express, he went on "And the Word was made flesh," as though smitten with amazement and astounded at the boundless loving-kindness. [Look what is being said here: John and Holy Scripture was wrong to use the words, "the Word was made flesh," thus John must have wrote this "smitten with amazement."] His existence is eternal; He is God; He made all things; He is source of eternal life and of true light; and on account of the salvation of men He put about Him the tabernacle of flesh. And He was supposed to be only that which He appeared. So for this reason he did not even mention a soul but only the perishable and mortal flesh. Of the soul as being immortal he said nothing in order to exhibit the boundlessness of the kindness. [The Grecian theory of the soul is not the same as what the Bible writes of the soul. They mix up sometimes the soul with the spirit. Of course, Christ's Spirit did not die. There was a difference between the Spirit of Christ and the flesh of Christ. (See God Papers, part 1 to 4,  above, and Body, Soul, and Spirit paper.]

11. The divine Apostle calls the Lord Christ seed of Abraham. But if this is true, as true it is, then God the Word was not changed into flesh, but took on Him the seed of Abraham, according to the teaching of the Apostle himself...

So the Creator took a body and a soul, and keeping them clean from the stains of sin for men's bodies gave His body and for their souls His soul. If this is true, and true it is, for these are words of truth itself, then wild and blasphemous are they who ascribe passion to the divine nature..."

(# 1 to 11 taken from, Post-Nicene Fathers, Series II, Vol. III, Theodoret, Dialogue I.- "The Immutable: Demonstrations by Syllogisms")

 

Deut 6:4 Hear, O Israel: The BeComingOne our God, the BeComingOne [is] one:
1Cor 8:6 yet to us [there is] one God, the Father, out of whom all things, and we into him; and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through whom [are] all things, and we through him.
1Kgs 8:60 That all the people of the earth may know that the BeComingOne, He is God, and that there is none else.
1Cor 15:28 But when all things shall have been brought into subjection to him [Christ], then the Son also himself shall be placed in subjection to him [Father] who put all things in subjection to him [Christ], that God may be all in all.
Deut 4:35 Unto you it was showed, that you might know that the BeComingOne he is God; there is none else beside him.
Deut 4:39 Know therefore this day, and consider it in your heart, that the BeComingOne he is God in the heavens above, and upon the earth beneath: there is none else.
Isa 45:6 That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the BeComingOne, and there is none else.
Isa 45:18 For thus says the BeComingOne that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he has established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the BeComingOne; and there is none else.
Isa 45:21 Tell ye, and bring them near; yea, let them take counsel together: who has declared this from ancient time? who has told it from that time? have not I the BeComingOne? and there is no God else beside me; a just God and a Savior; there is none beside me.
Isa 45:22 Look unto me, and be you saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.
Isa 46:9 Remember the former things of olam: for I am God, and there is none else; I am God, and there is none like me,

 

 

Luke 10:20 Yet in this rejoice not, that the spirits are subjected to you, but rejoice that your names are written in the heavens.
Luke 10:21 In the same hour Jesus rejoiced in spirit and said, I praise you, Father, Lord of the heaven and of the earth, that you have hid these things from wise and prudent, and have revealed them to babes: yes, Father, for thus has it been well-pleasing in your sight.
Luke 10:22 All things have been delivered to me by my Father, and no one knows who the Son is but the Father, and who the Father is but the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son is pleased to reveal [him]
Luke 10:23 And having turned to the disciples privately he said, Blessed are the eyes which see the things that you see.
Luke 10:24 For I say to you that many prophets and kings have desired to see the things which you behold, and did not see [them] and to hear the things which you hear, and did not hear [them]
Rom 1:19 Because what is known of God is manifest among them, for God has manifested [it] to them,
Rom 1:20 --for from [the] world's creation the invisible things of him are perceived, being apprehended by the mind through the things that are made, both his perpetual power and divinity, -- so as to render them inexcusable.

 

 

Exod 3:14 [English translation from Hebrew text] And God said unto Moses, I-Will-Be that I-Will-Be: and he said, Thus shall you say unto the children of Israel, I-Will- Be has sent me unto you.
John; Rev 1:4 to the seven assemblies which [are] in Asia: Grace to you and peace from [him] who is, and who was, and who is to come; and from the seven Spirits which [are] before his throne;
Rev 1:8 I am the Alpha and the Omega, saith [the] Lord the God, he who is, and who was, and who is to come, the Almighty.

 

 

Exod 3:14 [English translation from Greek text] And God spoke to Moses saying, I am THE BEING; and he said, Thus shall ye say to the children of Israel, THE BEING has sent me to you.

 

Trinitianism's Oneness

BeComingOne's Oneness

Augustine quotes John 17:20-23 to show "In what manner Christ wills that all shall be one in himself." (On the Trinity, Book IV, Chap 8-9) These verses state that "they" will be one as the Father and the Son are one. Yet Augustine also says, "He [Christ] did not say, I and they are one thing." No but scripture speaks of no one else but God, of God being all in all, etc. If these words have any meaning at all, we must take them for what they mean. But of course, the spirit of the antichrist changes the normal meaning of words: "it depends what you definition of is is." The antichrist spirit tries to change the meaning of marriage, of family, even as to what is right and what is wrong.

[Put more here]

John 17:20-23 manifest clearly the manner how the Father and the Son are one, and also how the followers of Christ are One with God. See 1Cor 12:12-14, 15:28; Eph 4:6; Col 3:11

[put more here]

 

 

 

 

"Tolerance of evil breeds more evil" 

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